January 24, 2008

Group "Thunk"

*As I ate a roast beef sandwich I composed this disjointed post*

I was thinking today (I know, I can’t believe it either! LOL!) that I’ve always detested group exercises. I know if you've been reading this blog for a while you probably get that. I prefer to have the group gather all the evidence and I’ll go thru it on my own. My approach does not always work as I'd prefer since almost everything these days is group think.

I’ve never liked using a group consensus to arrive at Truth with a capital T. I wonder if my nearly continual dislike of consensus helped contribute to my reversion. Feel free to call me self-centered and a non-team player if you like (I also enjoy running with scissors in my spare time). I've been called both, and worse, before! Clearly, if you use a group to define what they think Catholicism is you will probably leave the gathering as an agnostic.

At the end of the day, is to be truly Catholic an internal exercise? Do we, as faithful Catholics, take the external evidence and make it "our own" but still remain True? If we did not have the Body, would we be incapable of reaching Truth on our own? Do we require the evidence gatherers, the dissidents, the "pain in the neck" people to bounce our perspectives off of in order to acquire acceptance of Truth? Is Faith possible in a total vacuum of individuality? We need the Body but how healthy is the Body if the limbs don’t work? But, can the Body exist without the limbs?

If I say all this does that mean the "lost" fill a purpose for keeping the "saved" in line? That's an explosive idea but there it is. I know we are to try and save everyone and with Christ all things are possible. Does that mean, then, that the "saved" are here for the "lost"?

Gotta go! My lunch hour is almost over! Don't you just love people like me who run in and confuse everyone and flee before completing a thought!?! ROFL!


Blogger Vincenzo said...

"*As I ate a roast beef sandwich I composed this disjointed post*"

That sounds good!

January 24, 2008 2:13 PM  
Blogger Tom in Vegas said...

Well, Cath, I get the gist of your ideas. To sum things up from my perspective, for me it's Catholic or bust.

Then again, Terry has a post that might lead a Catholic to believe he or she might be a Protestant (dissident R.C.). Might you be referring to those same delusional "Protestants" that he mentions on his blog? I think so:0)

January 24, 2008 4:10 PM  
Anonymous adoro said...

Cathy, what I think you're getting at is the foundational question; why does God allow evil to occurr and to continue?

God allows all that you describe in order to bring a greater good out of it. If a dissident makes you ask questions and seek answers that bring you closer to God, then thank Him for that thorn in your side that lead you to Him. And then pray for your thorn.

Like you, I also despise group activities. I do enjoy working with people on some projects, but I get frustrated when it's too "groupy." In other words...give me my part and let me do it. Help me if I need help, I'll help you if you need help. Etc.

That's why I'm not in the Murray Institute...it's all about group projects. The very thought of getting my Master's that way just makes me cringe with cold shudders.

Incidentally, the sports that attracted me and that I love are all individual sports...running, skiing, swimming, horseback riding. In the context of a team, the individual has to focus on themselves, but ultimately, will still sacrifice themselves for the ultimate good of the team. It fits in well with the idea of the Mystical Body of Christ - we can't all enjoy the same things and be parts of the same thing. However, even within the body there are groupings that must work together directly so that other things can work individually. Think about it. You're not self centered to be an individual unless you placed yourself as God and decided you needed no one else. and you're not like that.

January 24, 2008 5:38 PM  
Blogger Cathy_of_Alex said...

Vin: I mentioned the food for you. :-)

Tom: Hmmm...I'll have to see what Ter is up too. I can't take my eyes off of him for a minute. Yes, his handsome physique is part of the reason I can't take my eyes off of him.

Adoro: You get it! I think you explained it better! I knew I put too much much horseradish on that sandwich! :-)

January 24, 2008 8:50 PM  
Blogger Terry Nelson said...

"why does God allow evil to occurr and to continue?"

Sorry - I didn't read beyond that.

Anyone hear about the little girl who was alone with her dead mother for 3 days and when someone came in to check on them - the little girl said her mommy was sick?

Did you hear about the infant who was badly burned in the nursing room of a local hospital?


January 24, 2008 9:33 PM  
Blogger Adoro te Devote said...

Terry ~ I heard those stories, too, and it breaks my heart. But remember...we are seeing as though our noses are stuck to a painting. God sees the entire picture, far beyond what we do. But that's not to say God CAUSES the suffering.

I hate the platitudes, though, that people offer; "It happened for a reason..." Sure, sometimes that's appropriate to say. But in such horrible tragedies like that, all we can do is offer it to God, because we can't do a THING about it but mourn with the family and the children affected.

In the book of Job, his friends did the right thing first. They sat in the ashed and cried with him. That was all. Because suffering is beyond our full understanding.

That's what we should do in the case of these tragedies...acknowledge the tragedy, cry, mourn...and pray. Ask these questions of God in prayer, for that is what He is seeking. Our questions.

It is a spiritual work of mercy to comfort the grieving, and the best way to do that is to join them.

We may discuss spiritual things, certainly, and theological concepts, but I would never say we should say those things to those who are in the depths of their pain. To do so would make us like Job's friends....after they got tired of mourning and decided to offer "advice."

Now, that said....Terry, you've read more on spirituality than I have. Christ did not suffer for nothing, and by His very act, He dignified suffering for all of us. In order to come close to Christ, we MUST suffer.

And no, I don't totally understand it especially when I'm the one suffering. But just the same, knowing that increases my faith and gives me peace. I just wish I could offer that peace to others. I can't...only God can

January 24, 2008 9:41 PM  
Blogger Cathy_of_Alex said...

I'm not sure I meant: "why does God allow evil to occur...". I'm not sure I'd classify dissident Catholics, as a group, as necessary evil-misguided, yes.

I don't think I read Adoro's first comment as closely as Terry did (sorry, I was on the run) but I did agree with Adoro's comments about group think.

January 25, 2008 6:28 AM  
Anonymous adoro said...

cathy ~ In reading your words, though, that's really what you were asking because your questions themselves are revolving around an evil.

And I'm getting back into grad school mode since I'm starting class again tonight. It's going to be a brutal semester.

And I don't think Terry really read my comment either, because he said, "I didn't read any further than that." And then he made an OT comment about horrible things.

But I still responded out of my geekiness in facing a brutal semester mode

January 25, 2008 8:37 AM  
Blogger Terry Nelson said...

Sorry ladies - I just was in a mood - "why do the innocent suffer" mood after hearing those stories. Sorry.

January 25, 2008 10:02 AM  
Blogger Christine said...

You've got my head spinning! LMAO!

January 25, 2008 8:16 PM  
Blogger Angela M. said...

Another Loner putting her 2 cents in here...wait, I have to read the post again....me confooosed!

January 25, 2008 10:16 PM  
Blogger Cathy_of_Alex said...

I don't know what I'm saying. That was a bad day for me and now I have a raging head cold.

*group hug*

January 26, 2008 12:26 PM  

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